As you listen to the inner circle, please use the blog to discuss your own thoughts and questions regarding chapters 1-2.
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151 comments:
Hello
Let's get this started.
Did anyone else notice that in chapter two, Tom had told Myrtle that he couldn't get a divorce because Daisy was catholic (which she isn't). Why wouldn't he want to leave her?
I would expect him to want to leave her because she is unfaithful. I don't understand it he is so "unhappy" but still won't leave her.
Maybe he does not want to leave daisy because part of him is still in love with her.
Where does it say that in chapter 2 lyndsey? What page?
I was going to say the same thing as Hannah L. Also, he might disagree with divorce or think that others will look down on him. I think that cheating on a spouse is much worse than divorce
Maybe he still is remembering her as his sole mate once upon a time. So it'd be hard to leave someone you thought you would love forever.
Maybe he doesn't want to leave her because he's afraid of what everybody else will think
Was there a religous problem that was shown through chapter 2? If so, would that explain why? Because if he didn't have any religous problems, then it should explain why he didn't want to leave her.
i agree with hannah you can still love a person but in a different way. i think he still has felling but they change over time
Is West Egg considered a worse place than East Egg?
To answer Lyndsey's question, I think that Tom deep down truly loves Daisy and doesn't want to ruin his daughters life. He cheats on Daisy because he is the type of man that gets bored and needs something new. However he also needs someone to fall back on.
pg 33 the last couple lines on the page brian
i dont think that he is necessarily scared to leave her for cheating, but rather is unable to handle his foreign feelings now that she has compromised the love they both had for one another
I agree with Wes, that passage does seem to describe the classes.
hey is this finally working
Julie, I still don't understand west egg vs. east egg.
I think that it's interesting that George and Myrtle Wilson live in the Valley of Ashes (I think that they live there, is that correct?) when their marrige has gone to "ashes". Also, I think that George still loves Myrtle, does anyone agree?
I agree with jonathan. Marriage is supposed to be forever. When someone says they will be with someone until death, that should mean they won't get divorced. So he wants to respect that.
yeah what does it mean the west egg and east egg thing? someone help?
I think Sara has a good point. Why haven't we met Gatsby? Is there something wrong with him?
i finally got this thing to work, i hate technology... so what really is the difference of E. and W. egg?
I like Julie's connectoing between the Valley of Ashes, and how their marriage resembles ashes.
What do you think the ashes represents in this story?
I agree with Jon, you would think because he is so unhappy he would want to leave and get out of the situation.
From what we have heard about Gatsby is suppoused to peak our interest. All we seem to know is that he is mysterious and he is "Known" but not popular with people.
I think he doesn't leave her because he has her to fall back on if something goes wrong. He knows she will always be there.
I agree with Bryan, marraige is forever. Its a binding contract of love. And wasn't divorced looked down upon in that time period?
Brian, that is what we have been brought up to believe. I think that parent's have tried to push that lesson on us, that we should always push for a lasting marraige. But, I think it could be a good idea to look at the marraige styles in this time of the book, compared to our time, where divorce seems to be on the higher end of life.
QUESTION FOR EVERYONE:
WHO IS IT ON THE COVER OF THE BOOK?
i am impressed by Scott's word usage, his sentences are perfectly constructed. "His speaking voice, a gruff husky tenor, added to the impression of fractiousness he conveyed."
I think east egg is believed to be more "prestigious". I think east egg is the more popular of the two to live
Why would he be afraid to leave her?
FOR ONCE I AGREE WITH LAUREN why did he bring Nick to see his mistress?
Could the person on the cover be Daisy? or someone else we havn't met yet? I don't know?
The marriages seem kind of "corrupt" in this book? Was that true of the time period? or was it because of fitzgerald's life experiences
Well there is an obvious difference between East and West Egg, i believe that it is a different neighborhood that has different values that will be contrasted throughout the story.
Has anyone noticed anything special about the eyes on the front cover?
Tom doesn't want to leave Daisy because he is in love with her. As much as he might want to, he can't change how he feels about her.
I don't know for sure but I think the east and west eggs are locations in New York. There are the people from East New York and people from West New York. Also, the West Egg and East Egg are landmarks. They are peninsulas that jut out into the water.
I think he doesn't want to divorce her because divorce shows alot about people and how they are and what their flaws are. No one wants anyone to look down at him in any way so he would want to stay with Myrtle. He also might still have feelings for her, he just gets restless and is the type of person that needs a change every now and then.
The picture on the cover of the book reminds me of Dr. Eckelburg. He is not a real person, he is on a billboard but he overlooks the city. Pg. 28 and 30 of the book with the gold band.
I have a question about what the significance between East Egg and West Egg is as well. I don't understand where Fitzgerald got the name for East and West Egg. Also why is it so significant that East and West Egg are so separate?
Indeed, it is rather inexplicably random that Tom takes Nick to see his secret girlfriend,
What could possibly be the motive?
I for one believe that he is simply proud of his latest catch and wishes to show her off to Tom
Or maybe he is attempting to assert his independence, saying that his wife cannot hold him down
Well, when someone is considering afraid of leaving someone, do you think though that they are thinking back to the good times that they shared. That could be a reason. Because, you might not want to throw everything away, at least not until you first re-examine your life you had with your soul mate.
If you were put in the same situation he was in, would you leave that person?
hers eyes seem to have people in them.
Maybe they are all trying to avoid change, or even the idea of it.
To answer Jon's question, for some reason I think Daisy is on the cover. I think she is on the cover because she is so upset that her husband is cheating on her and she feels all alone.
I agree with Taylor, East and West Egg are the different sides of the neighborhoods. Its like two different sides of the story, two different views.
Its what they do, Party and cheat. Great life syle huh?
Amy is discussing the relationship of Tom and Myrtle. Whether or not she is attractive, why would she cheat on her husband with Tom if he is abusive. HE BROKE HER NOSE!!!!
I think marriage like that was common back then among that group of people. It was new and exciting and that's what they were all about.
hey kassy i agree with the comment on the eyes they stand out but what catches my eye are the lips. the red also adds to the affect. its like schindlers list the red dress? It's artistic vision at it's best.
Hannah D. what were the values of marriage at this period in time?
West Egg and East Egg are just two cities.
Does anyone have an opinion about the cover of the book? What do you think the eyes represent?
If i was put in the same situation i would do was was right for me before thinking about how it effects everyone else. I think my happiness is most important in this case.
I agree with Amy? Why is Tom interested in Myrtle? She was not described as a good looking person, and he doesn't seem so interested in her because he breaks her nose. I don't understand what is the main fascination with her?
I agree with Lyndsey that the marriage in this book is messed up. The characters seem to be marrying people because they are good people and not because they loved each other. Divorce seems to be a popular result, that or cheating. It seems like they characters do not care that they are hurting each other.
I hadn't noticed the motifs before. that is so interesting.
If i was in that situation in that time period, i'd probably be considering all of the stereotypes and judgement. When your actions are judged by everybody else, you can't help but think twice.
What I'm understanding about the vaules of marraige in the book, is that back then, they took marraige seriously, that they wanted to have it all, and be known that they weren't the family who had the affair, or the family who didn't break up, but here, people seem to be moving at such a fast pace, that marraige seems to come and go.
It seemed like they were a lot more laid back when tom beat Myrtle. Was it socialy acceptable back then? anyone?
I think that the valuse of marriage are very importaint. But I think there different for each relationship. But they also have the basic rules. Being honest, no cheating, being open, dont hide anger or happiness, be greatful for each other. It could be anything
Kelsie maybe he is partly interested in her because of the risk he is taking in having an affair. Maybe she is symbolic of crossing the boundaries.
I think Tom wants things that he can't have
A reoccuring theme here seems to be people who cannot have what they want. Tom's wife cannot keep him loyal. The fat girl in the car shop does not stay loyal to her husband
Pg. 34-35 Nick is talking to Tom about the West and East. Tom says "I'd be a God Damn fool to live anywhere else." Miss Baker responded with "Absolutely!" This makes it seem that the East is better.
Escape appearances what does that mean? I never thought of Myrtle as a sexual interest. Thats interesting.
In response to Hannah at 8:13, East and West Eggs are like small pieces of land of the edge of Long Island.
John (8:17), I think that he brought Nick to see his mistress as to sort of brag to him if you know what i mean?
Why would she break his nose? This is a question i can't answer for you, Julie. He doesn't even seem to care about her, and his wife as well.
Hannah i agree with your comment about people marrying because they think the other people are just nice, rather than because they love them. Otherwise they would not be cheating on each other like they are.
Julie, I think you have a very valid point in saying that they view the east as better, but personally I don't see why this would be a problem because they are very close to each other, therefore i see almost no difference rather than east and west.
I wonder why everyone is so into cheating in this story. Maybe because Fitzgerald was cheated on.
What I think about the eyes, is that they are a representative of whatever you do, someone will find out, someone will know. And that you cannot get away from anything that you do.
I think the board means that you might get a way with thing but in the end you will get caught.
I think that Fitzgerald put the billboard in to, in agreement with Taylor, symbolize that they are being watched and that there may eventually be reprecussions for their actions.
I think the eyes symbolize being watched over. Being a rich person you always have people looking at you and wanting your life and fortune, espically in NYC. Your being watched and judged all the time, everyone is. Even in society now.
Cheating in this story just seems like an everyday occurence. If someone is not cheating then something is wrong.
I agree with sarah when she said that the people are being looked down on because it is poor and deserted.
I think the eyes represent how somebody is always watching. You can't really ever escape judgement.
I agree with what Taylor said on how the eyes are a symbol showing how people are watching. I think that during this time Fitzgerald had just found out that his wife was cheating on him and I think that he wanted to display how he is now watching his wife.
I think she wants a police dog because she might be insecure about her safety or has a feeling of loneliness from her husband.
I was also confused about the dog. The only reason I thought Myrtle might want a dog is to bring her and Tom closer.
I agree with emily a on that Tom really does love daisy...he shows love for her
I think that you have a very good point Ben. It's almost as though when everything is how it should be, no cheating or anything, something is wrong.
why does she even have the dog? Will it play a part later even though it is irrelevant right now?
I agree with you madison, that when people seem to be looking at you, that they either admire your life, or they seem greatuful that they don't have your life.
hello everyone, i finally got on
Blake- yes fitzgerald was cheated on it was in the movie. Zelda had an affair with a flight captain.
It's strange how being normal requires someone to be cheating on their spouse.
I thought that the dog is so weird and random. It seems so random that she would just stop in the middle of her walk and decide that she wants to buy a puppy. The thing that confused me the most about it was how she went from wanting a 'police dog' and she settled for the first dog that the man showed her.
Hannah l. you have an interesting point. Does the book ever say anything about people looking down on those in the Valley of Ashes?
Julie- yes I am aware of that
or one the off chance that they dont care, they might decide that your life is enviable but not worth the price payed
I agree with Blake. I think she wanted a police dog because he was scared maybe of having her husband find out that she is cheating and have him come after her.
Why would you want your child to be a fool? Even though she would be oblivious to husbands cheating she wouldn't be able to know whats going on. I think that the women in the story should know what is going on. It isn't fair to them as humans to be degraded like they are with the cheating and the lying.
I agree with the right of the 20th century with taylor because women then didn't want to say something that would offend the man of the house....if it wasn't like that how far would she take it?
I think the eyes represent that you are always being watched and judged.
dear kelsieb
women at this time were not expected to perform functions that were logical or contributed to society, it was there fore her privelege to spen her day being random, flirting, and squandering her inheritance of fake police dog
I agree with that.
I thinki she wants her daughter to be a fool so she can overlook all the cheating and keep a meriage
i agree with ben
Katie, you have a good point and i think that she would want her child to be a fool because she may not get hurt or be aware of things that that are going on.
brian- the valley of ashes is kind of the "working class". Wilson's garage is described as "unprosperous" on pg. 29.
I agree with Julie, she might have thought that the dog would maybe repair the damages made in their marriage, that it might help bond them together, and she could use it as an excuse.
I think she wants her child to be a fool so she want get hurt.
Why are the couples cheating on each other? Will the other person ever find out?
I agree with you Kelsie. Why would Myrtle just go with the first dog the man gave her. I think she is almost spoiled by Tom. He buys her everything she wants. So I think she just buys things for the sake of buying things. Because she can.
I agree with blake for agreeing with me.
I agree with ben for agreeing with me with agreeing with him.
I like Blake and Emily's comment on the police dog!
I agree with kristin. The eyes represent the constant watching and judging that people do. Also, I think they represent that everyone can see what is happening in your life whether they should be involved or not.
I don't think the reason she wanted the police dog and went on the outing was because she was random or had no obligations as a "wife" rather I think it was charactar development. Her willingness to settle for the first dog just shows her attitude towards life and a reckless negligence for tradition.
I like what brian said about her just buying things for the joy of being able to.
Why would Fitzgerald write a story I think is based on his life? Do you think he wrote about this to release his emotions and maybe could this be a way to get back to Zelda?
I think that blake is right. It is sad that in order to be "normal" in this book you have to be a fool. I thought that this comment was interesting on Daisy's part to say that the only thing that a girl can do is be a beautiful fool. I thought that was interesting because she doesn't really talk about the affair
That's a good observation Blake.
That's a good observation Blake.
And if the daughter is a fool then she won't get hurt because she won't know that her husband is cheating.
That's a good observation Blake.
I agree with Brian. If women were left with nothing to do, it would make sense that they just want to buy things
I think the couples are cheating on each other because they are bored with each other. This happens a lot nowadays. They need something new and fresh every five or ten years.
I think the reason they where cheating because they where tired of there regular life.
The dog might represent a constant love, because it wont go away.
I think the cheating will be caught at some time and drama will arise like always...it always happens like that and thats just how it is
Brian on page 23 I interprited "but above the gray land and the spasms of bleask dust which drift endlessly over it, you perceive after a moment the eyes of Doctor T.J Eckleburg" I thought the colors were referanceing to a place that was not as nice where scandle goes on there.
i disagree, first off, the eyes are not ominous, or condemning, they are simply a bilboard of sorts left behind by some oculist
and why would they stand for jugdement
i ask you with sincerety
Emily- I think so. The book is a way to tell Zelda what he wants to tell her indirectly.
I think Gatsby has all these parties to become invisible.; That way the focus isnt just on him. I am going to have to say Gatsby is hiding something
Janae- I kind of agree with you. I think that they got bored in their marriges. If you were married to someone but loved someone else I think that the fair thing to do is to get a divorce and let everyone move on with their lives. It's not fun but it's the best option.
I agree with your interpretation hannah l. They are almost looking down on them.
no offense meant hannah, and whoever supported her comment
thats just my opinion
This makes me think of Romeo and Juliet and the masquerade party where everyone is decieving everyone by wearing masks and leave their affairs to chance and no one really cares if they are cheated on because they don't really know who their acquaintances are.
Julie you make a good point that Fitzgerald wanted to tell Zelda how he felt, but I also think that he was saying that he was cheating on her, but still loved her...
What Julie said about him writing the book to Zelda saying what he wants to her indirectly. That makes a lot of sense, and sort of fits to the way he writes.
Pat-What do you think Gatsby is hiding?
Gatsby is creating a fake enviornment. He is just throwing partyies to be socialy acceptable
Is their any purpose for all the lavish parties that Gatsby throws? Many of the people who attend don't even know him! I agree with Eric that he thinks that it will make him happy. Who was the guy in the library that was all drunk?
I like bens comment on my observation and how he says it was good.
Mike- Even though she is trying to protect her daughter from the pain of the outside world, couldn't that just cause problems because she would be sheltered. I believe that people who live sheltered lives dont live fully. I would rather have my child live a full life then be sheltered because then they would have full experiences of the world.
But Julie, marriage is a lifelong thing. Just divorcing someone because you don't love them anymore isn't honorable.
He maybe is hiding his past army experiances
Brian- But cheating isn't honorable either.
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